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Blaaagher Invasion 2 – The Transcript

July 12, 2011

For those of you WAR fans that stepped away from the Internet for a week or so and didn’t hear about it, a handful of us bloggers were invited out to BioWare-Mythic again last week.

The good news is, this time around there wasn’t a huge billing fiasco…so we’ve got that going for us.  😉

Apparently the bad news is that we, and by we I mean some of us bloggers, told people about it.  ~gasp~

This, of course, led to flaming forum posts and even a  piece on the subject over at Massively…which still has me confused.  But moving on…

While Werit, Bootae, Erdknuffel, Karic, Mykiel (Part 1 / Part 2), and Ekalime have posted some information as well as their thoughts on the day, I wanted to get people as true a look at the conversation we had at one point in the day as possible via a transcript.

Please keep in mind, as with all my transcripts, I do the best I can to give you an accurate look at what happened.  However as with any speech-to-text conversion, what I put in print lacks tone & visual cues as well as the feel of a live conversation between a group of people who sometimes like to talk all at the same time…



Ima let you finish reading the transcript, but first I just wanna say… This picture cracks me up.  I still don’t understand why Steven has his head on my shoulder…I think I need an adult…

Anyway, it almost didn’t happen at all.  We were literally on our way out the door to head to the airport and were running behind but just decided to try to grab anyone who was in the room at the time and pile them into a big picture.  For the record, three of the people in the picture are us bloggers and Mykiel is the fourth holding the camera.  Everyone else works for BioWare-Mythic but in no way does this represent the entire team/studio.  What it does represent is a mix of Warhammer Online Producers, Artists, Designers, Developers, Community Team, Story-Line and Sound (and QA!).  I’m told there’s no Engineers in the picture because they keep them chained in the basement are in a different area of the building.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch…

Blaaagher Invasion Part 2 – The Transcript

(Preface: The Devs we were with did a very good job of taking notes during this discussion, even though, at times, it was a bit off-track. And away we go…)

Steven: K, you’re burning daylight. Let’s go.

James Casey: So the idea behind this first meeting, is you’re all here…you all blog about (WAR) …so we all wanted you to come in…wanted you to find out what’s going on with (WAR). I didn’t make you guys a presentation. I didn’t go all out on it because, honestly, the idea wasn’t to come here and sell you. The idea was to have you just come in, talk to you a bit about what we’re doing and get some feedback from you guys. Kinda make it more of a discussion. The same idea that we try to do somewhat on the forums but try to make it more open. You guys are pretty vocal and a good part of the community so we wanted you guys to be part of that.

GG: Why you lookin’ at me?


Sean: He did say vocal…

~more laughter~

GG: You say vocal and Steven’s like.. ~turns head slowly and stares~

~more laughter~

JC: Well, some people just put random photos up for no reason.. ~turns head slowly and stares at Mykiel~

~more laughter~

JC: So did you guys get to talk last night about… I know one of the things you were planning to talk about was what you felt about the last six months of (WAR). Did you guys talk about that much at all?

~Chorus of No’s~

(Ed. Note:  We all got in the night before and had dinner with a couple of BioWare-Mythic people before calling it an early night and getting rested for the next day…that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.)

Steven: We talked about SWG at one point…Gaar and I…

Nate: I’m shocked and amazed…

Mykiel: I spent a good amount of time making fun of Steven…

Nate: I’m shocked and amazed…

JC: Well…we could spend all day doing that but…so let’s start with that. Over the last six months, we’ve made a number of changes leading out of 1.4.0 essentially which was the first paid content essentially. I’d like to know from you guys what you think the best thing and worst thing over the last six months was (in your opinion).

Mykiel: Best thing: Changing the Renown Rank on gear in the lower levels and extending the Renown Rank so you could go double your Rank. Seriously, that was always a big issue with me when I’d work on an alt. I’d hit RR22 and I’m Rank 22 and than I’d hit 23 and then ~ding~ RR23 and I’m hosed (and have to grind out another Rank before getting more RR). So yeah, that right there plus the gear in the lower sets while at the same time not modifying the Scenario weapons made the lower Tiers a lot more fun.

JC: What about the worst?

Mykiel: Worst: Renown ticks galore for everything.

JC: You just felt it was too much free candy?

Mykiel: Yeah, it’s too much free candy.

JC: Any particular spot?

Mykiel: Any of the Tiers. Like, if you’re gonna do the lower Tiers for a Live Event, I leveled two toons through Tier 3 taking the time to level them up and get as much Renown as possible and I only had two Scenario pops, one on each toon, during that entire time. Plenty of people, but it’s a side effect of the Renown that you have massive amounts of people that literally just hang out in the warcamps in lower levels to just get as much Renown as possible. It’s free candy.

JC: OK..Ekalime…Best and Worst.

EK: I think I’m going to have to agree with Mykiel: doubling the Renown Rank cap in lower levels. That really helped a lot of players and it really helped narrow down (the RR gap) in Tier 4. However, for the Worst, I’m going to have to say fighting in Tier 4 for a third year. It’s really gotten dry. I mean, I love Dragonwake, but…


EK: I do Scenarios mostly because ORvR is just the same thing I’ve been doing already for three years.

JC: Sure. So you’re looking for something different to do essentially?

EK: Looking for new places to fight.


GG: Mine’s different. So, for me, my focus is different. I like the fact that we finally got a new Live Event. To me, that was the best thing (in the last six months). It wasn’t the greatest Live Event in the world…

JC: Sure…

GG: But at least it was a new Live Event and it was the first one we’d had since 2009.

JC: Anything we did to other ones were just revamps or little things.

GG: Yeah. It was like “OK, we’re going to change one Task.” There were no new rewards, no new titles, no new nothing for all the people that have played since Launch…we didn’t have anything to do. And that’s kind of the worst thing too…for all the people that have played since Launch…there’s nothing to do. I’ve done all the PvE in the game…a Live Event, to me, creates some more PvE-type stuff I can do sometimes, depending on what the Event has…so those are always nice, but we didn’t have that and there’s nowhere new to fight…I’m fighting in the same Scenarios since the game launched…

JC: Yeah…OK. What about…as far as the new Live Event…the concept of focusing more of the gameplay around a familiar, but new, concept like the College of Corruption. Good or bad?

GG: I like that there’s a new place to fight. If you have a Live Event that takes you somewhere new, then that’s good. Like with The Wild Hunt, you added a new Dungeon. With Sigmartide, you have the College of Corruption that you get to fight in.

JC: So it doesn’t bother you that the College existed before, but…

GG: It existed just to walk through or, in the old version of the City Siege, for Destruction to fight in.

JC: Yeah, I just wanted to make sure because there are a lot of nay-sayers…

GG: Well, yeah, but their argument is you’re recycling content, but it wasn’t content. It was a picture. It was a place you could walk through and look at, or that Destruction could fight in, but Order never fought in. So, to me, I don’t have a problem with that. As long as it’s done in a way that is different than it was before…

JC: And as long as someone remembers to make the initials a little better…


JC: And Werit: Best and Worst.

Werit: I’d say the Best is the added progression. A lot of people may have had issues with how much or whatever, but it’s always nice to have somewhere ahead of you to go. I enjoyed that even though I just got into the 80s kind of recently. But I’m a slow player when it comes to that.

Mykiel: ~old man voice~ “It took me four years…”


Werit: And the Worst I would say is the ORvR changes. It’s just too much. It’s the same thing in every zone and there’s really no reason to defend. So…I haven’t had in good Open RvR in a while cuz either there’s no defense or there’s no help when I’m trying to defend. So it’s kind of like “Well, I may as well just do Scenarios.” Cuz I know I’ll get a fight there.

JC: OK. Let’s see…before we get into some of the other stuff we wanted to talk about…

Steven: (@Gaar) Did you say something negative?

GG: The 80s called, they want their collar back. (He was wearing a shirt with a collar and he had it popped.)

JC: Ohhh…

GG: (@Steven) What were you saying?

Nate: See, I gave him flack for only having one…


(At this point, it broke down into about four different conversations at the same time about things completely non-WAR related including DAoC, Game of Thrones, babies with wings and Steven’s repetitive clothing choices. And you thought keeping a warband focused was hard…like herding cats people…)

Mykiel: I was watching Gmae of Thrones and immediately thought back to the beginning of WAR where people were making Alliances to hold zones and Keeps and all of a sudden people would backstab their own side. All the petty little stuff and people fighting over control. I do miss that.

EK: Can I add something?

JC: Sure.

EK: I think the biggest thing that upsets me is how easy it is to get the RvR Gear. Because, when I leveled, getting Annihilator was damn hard. Now, all the RvR Gear is thrown out for free. People don’t have to work for anything. And that same mentality transfers over to Open RvR. There’s no need for Realm unity. People aren’t trying to take Keeps together to gear up their guilds…there’s no more Fortresses…there’s no need for unity. The City can be done by unorganized rabble. A Rank 30 will win Warpforged and a Rank 100 will win Warpforged…

GG: Yeah…I think my Rank 40/RR20-ish Rune Priest did the City once and got a Doomflayer piece and I was like “?!?!?! I’m nowhere near that and probably never will be!!!!” To me, that was more of an issue with even allowing people of that Renown Rank in.

JC: Sure. Before we get into specifics of things for short and long-term of what we have on the plate, let’s do one more quick question. If there was one thing that you want us to focus on over the next six months to a year, what would it be? It doesn’t necessarily have to be the worst thing on your list or whatever, just one thing.

Werit: I’d say Open RvR for me. Just needs to be more compelling…more reason to go in the lakes…more actual fighting instead of people taking zones and just getting the loser reward.

Sean: As a counter to that, what, in your mind, would make Open RvR more compelling?

Werit: I’ve always been a fan of having Guild things to hold like we used to. If you could have some sense of ownership over something, you’d fight for defend it…things like that. Now, everything is so temporary. It’s “Rent-a-Keep” and no matter what, it’s gone really soon cuz it has to be to get to the City. You have to lose it

And just more reasons to be in small groups. You need big fights sometimes, but you also need small warfare other times.

GG: Content. Stuff to do to change up the pace. Like..the Weekend Warfronts, to me, it seemed like the idea was to kind of change where everyone was fighting a couple days a week, but we’ve been in all of them. New people, I’m sure, it’s cool cuz they get to do something they’ve never seen before. But, I need something more than that. I have to have something to do…to keep my interest, I have to be doing something other than just fighting, fighting, fighting all the time and I don’t have any PvE content left…I need some kind of episodic content that I can go and say “Oh, I get to do this this week” and my break is to be able to go and bash heads.

EK: This may go against Gaarawarr’s PvE, but for me, no one really does PvE anymore. Personally, I think a lot of the PvE content is some of the most amazingly designed locations in the game. And I really love the PvE locations. They’re really places you want to defend. If you look at the Battlefield Objectives in the game, they’re a pile of rocks…a tiny building…they don’t seem significant. For me, I would really like to see the RvR lake, particularly in Tier 4 because I can see the necessity of Tiers 1-3 needing PvE so people still have the option to level through those Tiers, but in Tier 4 where I really don’t see anyone doing those PvE encounters, Public Quests and whatnot, I’d really like to see some of those locations incorporated into the RvR lake. I really think that they would make RvR really different.

JC: But do you want to open them up as part of the existing RvR and spread out the population or were you thinking more of like alternative ways to do the campaign? So like, instead of this Tier being open it’s this area…or something like that.

EK: It really depends on how the Tier 4 system…if it’s maintained in its current state…which I’m not a big fan of…cuz I know the original design for it was…it was more for busting up the zerg and I don’t think it did that. I think the zerg gets funneled into a Keep and we all look at a door, which isn’t terribly thrilling, and sometimes a little Squig Herder pokes his head over the wall and I can shoot at him, but overall the Keep siege, everyone’s funneled into one area. Sometimes groups split out and go defend Battlefield Objectives, but that’s not really the focus. For me, if you re-included the Battlefield Objectives into some mechanic for locking the zone, so you don’t forget about them once you take the Keep you need to hold them still…it doesn’t have to be for a timer cuz the timer was a little bit draining on the community…but if you did have to hold them then you could get rid of the Battlefield Objectives in the existing RvR lake and expand them to different locations. Like I said, there’s a lot of interesting locations that would offer pretty unique opportunities.

Rowland: So like transplanting some of those? Literally moving assets?

EK: Yeah, for example, Chaos Wastes. You have Chokethorn Bramble, it’s designed around the vines. You could relocate that location into the RvR lake and have the same scenery but it’s a lot more chaotic and would provide a different opportunity for people to fight in. I’m just tired of…the RvR lakes are all very funneled. You look at Caledor, there’s no strategy. You can’t branch off to the side and try to surround someone, you go from the west to the east, straight down. Maybe you can go to the Keep and take the flag to the warcamp, but in the end it’s still a funnel.

Mykiel: Basion Stair, Lost Vale, Mt. Gunbad, Blood/Bile, Sigmar Crypts…take all of that and intertwine it with the campaign and make it RvR-based to where it’s either a bit Scenario or a point to fight over. So instead of it being an Objective flag you have to capture, people have to go in and fight over it and it’s open only for a period of time. Not that it’s unlocked, but that it’s open…Destruction won will unlock in 45 minutes. The fight inside might last 30 minutes. But you’d have Bastion Stair for Empire/Chaos, Mt. Gunbad for Dwarf/Greenskin, Lost Vale for High Elf/Dark Elf. Along those lines. You take the PvE areas and give them some kind of flavor to where people are fighting in them because those areas are really cool and there’d be a lot of great fights. Like in Hunter’s Vale, the first time I saw that I thought “This would be a cool place to fight”. So you do that and you take the PvE Gear that drops there and you award that for the rewards that people fight for. A lot of people want to get that gear but they complain about it because you have to PvE to get it. This way you are fighting other players in specific parts for your gear. So like the first wing of Lost Vale could be attached to Caledor, the second wing to Dragonwake, etc. But you’re fighting other players and instead of getting the RvR gear, you’re getting the gear from the actual Dungeon. Now, with a couple dungeons you’d have to change up the armor, but you’d be allowing people access to that gear (via RvR) and it would expand the campaign instead of being just mindless zerg-on-zerg.

JC: Alright, so…1.4.4 and 1.4.5 and beyond. Bunch of stuff to go over. We’ll get part of it done now and we’ll probably have to come back to the rest later.

For 1.4.4, we’re looking at probably an August time-frame. We’re keeping with a two month schedule roughly. We’ll do all the normal stuff we’ve been doing like getting bug fixes in and we’ll do another Scenario switch-up with a Dev Discussion, etc. One of the things that I’d like to do, but it’s very…potentially…risky is opening up Scenarios for the 6v6 ones cuz I know people loved the Gates of Ekrund 6v6 but I think it’s a combination of potentially bad things as well because it has the potential then to dominate the pops and also be a domination thing based on pick-up groups too. One of the things that I would potentially like to do, if we do one of those, is actually make the pop-times on 12v12, the amount you need to get into them, a little lower so they’ll pop more often and then make the minimum before a 6v6 pops slightly higher so that there’s a little more overlap so you don’t always get 6v6 if you “Join All” all the time.

Werit: Yeah, I definitely like it if there’s variety. But if it’s 6v6 all week, I just won’t queue anymore. If there’s variety, then it’s fine.

Steven: We’re also toying around with the idea that people have suggested, creating a 6v6 that doesn’t have the rewards that the other ones do. So if people want to go do 6v6, you can go do it, but you’re not going to get your Scenario Weapon Tokens…you’re not going to get the added bonus…if you want to do 6v6 and test your mettle that way, you can but you’re not going to get the rewards like you do in the others.

Werit: It would be interesting.

GG: Well, yeah, cuz whenever you get the Eternal Citadel for a weekend, it’s just a Token-Farm. You go and hop in that one cuz it’s over in a few minutes.

Steven: Yeah, it’s like a 3 minute battle which is the reason it was suggested. Don’t put rewards there and see if people will still do it.

GG: Yeah, cuz that’s why everybody queues for it. Nobody cares if they win or lose, just gimme my tokens every 3 minutes.

Steven: That idea has been tossed around different places. What do you guys think of that?

GG: I don’t think people will like it.

~lots of agreement~

GG: It’s that whole same thing with the dueling issue. We always said if you put in the /duel command and you let people fight but you don’t give them Renown, XP, or any loot drops from it….how many people are going to go out there and do what they said they were doing. “I’m just testing my skill.” How many people are going to be there? A hell of a lot less and it would be the same thing with the 6v6 Scenarios. They want to say “Oh, I just want to go in with my group and see how good we are” but if you didn’t have the rewards they’d say “This is stupid.”

Mykiel: Which was proven by the decline of dueling after you all changed the drop rates on Tokens so they were harder to get when you were solo.

~lots of agreement~

GG: Yeah, I mean, I think that should be the place where if you want to go 6v6 you’re gonna get a fun fight cuz it’s smaller and it’s more balanced. I think pick-up groups work better in 6v6 as opposed to where people say pre-mades dominate. I think you can go in there with a pick-up group and you can end up without a healer and still do ok.

JC: We don’t have the technology at the moment, but what about the idea that 6v6 would become just pick-up groups? (no pre-mades allowed to queue)

GG: I would love it.

Mykiel: No, because it alienates people.

JC: Oh, it does, I agree.

Mykiel: The big part with that is…I still stick by: If you want a healer in your group, queue with one.

JC: What about the opposite? Pre-made only.

Mykiel: No at the same time. Because then people will not queue. And if you made it pick-up group only I guarantee you within a week someone will have an addon that links up QueueQueuer so that you queue solo together and get in as a group anyway. I guarantee people will do it because they were doing it in WoW for the longest time.

JC: Yeah.

GG: I still think 6v6 gives you a better ability to fight against…

Mykiel: It has nothing to do with 6v6, it’s the Scenario. A pre-made running Eternal Citadel…

GG: It’s not…it has to do with the number of people. When you run 6v6 the amount of total damage that can be focused on any given person is less than in a 12v12 Scenario. You get split up, you’re on your own, you don’t have enough healers, etc…

Mykiel: Facing a pre-made in the Eternal Citadel or Reikland Factory compared to Gates of Ekrund…

GG: Lowering the numbers makes it more forgiving…

Mykiel: Gates of Ekrund was pick-up group friendly against a pre-made because of how the Scenario was made.

GG: I’m not saying design can’t help, I’m just saying it’s a lot more forgiving to have smaller numbers fighting smaller numbers than it is to have larger numbers fighting larger numbers because if only half of your group is there because of the way you respawned and that entire 12-man team comes rolling in…you’re toast and there’s nothing you can do. But if it’s a 6-man team running against 3, you’ve got a lot better odds of surviving that damage.

Steven: Now, is it pick-up group friendly just because it’s point-capture and avoiding the fight gets you points?

Mykiel: No, it’s the actual design. It’s both side start on either side and you have ranged that can sit up and fight here and jump down and move around…

Steven: So it’s a terrain thing where you have different options…

Mykiel: You have lots of options compared to other Scenarios like, say, Maw of Madness where there wasn’t a lot of areas for you to run. Yeah, you could run around this pole…but in the end one side is getting pushed. With Gates of Ekrund, you can run around the side and up and then come in from the opposite Realm’s entrance if you want to. Each side has areas near their spawn where they’re safe but they can fire on the enemy in case the enemy is spawn-camping them. You have multiple different ways that can help out in the Scenario that does make it pick-up group friendly vs. pre-made friendly but at the same time it works really well as 6v6. I was surprised by that, I figured it wouldn’t.

JC: To that end, what about…because design would be in consideration…what about a weekend where instead of a Warfront we make all the Scenarios 6v6 or 12v12 or 18v18?

Mykiel: That’s exactly what I asked on the forums…is there anyway to make a Scenario where it’s regular during the week but changes to something else during the weekend? So during the week it’s 12v12 to handle Werit’s queue issues but on the weekend it’s 6v6.

JC: Sure, but my question is more towards, would you rather see Gates of Ekrund go 6v6 for the weekend and then back during the week or would you rather see all of them go to a particular size at the same time so they don’t have any…

Steven: So you still have variety…you can queue up and still get into them.

Mykiel: It comes down to design.

JC: Yeah.

Steven: Nordenwatch 6v6 might not be good.

GG: In some cases, it might be better.

Mykiel: Yeah, switching Gates of Ekrund to 6v6 on the weekend might be great, but realistically, there’s only so many Scenarios you can do that with.

GG: I don’t know. I’m still of the mind that if you turned them all 6v6, they all become more viable because they become more friendly to not needing pre-mades. You can run into more situations where you don’t have a healer and you can be ok. (Ed. Note: I keep bringing up the healer issue because I got stuck in multiple City-Sieges where out of 24 people, we didn’t have a single frackin’ healer…anyway…)

Mykiel: A lot of the Scenarios you’d have to change the ruleset for though, like Phoenix Gate. You’d have to change the ruleset there. You’d have to change Serpent’s Passage around.

GG: What do you have to change in Serpent’s Passage? Everybody just camps the spawn anyway while one guy runs the part. How is that gonna be any different?

Steven: Well, that one person is more important in a 6v6 than in a 12v12.

GG: Yeah, but nobody cares if you run the part. You can just sit there and camp it regardless.

JC: You do have a better chance of potentially breaking a spawn camp with less people in the Scenario.

Steven: Yeah…let me have my 12v12 camp…

Mykiel: If you made Howling Gorge a 6v6, that’s a big Scenario…Serpent’s Passage is a big Scenario.

JC: Yeah, some of them are too big.

GG: I don’t know that it’s too big. I think it creates the situations that some people want which is a 1v1 or a 2v2 where no one’s going to be able to show up and help. Like your zerg isn’t going to come out of nowhere and save you.

Mykiel: Hey, if you wanna duel, go play WoW

GG: I’m not talking about dueling, I’m talking about for three days giving people a chance to do something they don’t get to do the rest of the week.

JC: So there’s some division on this…


Steven: Werit’s got a good idea…

JC: Go ahead.

Werit: Let’s try it? Can’t we just try it for one weekend?

JC: Sure.

Steven: There…stop arguing…stop the fighting…I hate when Mom and Dad fight…

JC: Yeah, we can definitely do that on a weekend.

GG: I’m still waiting for my all-chicken Scenarios.

JC: Oh, I know.

GG: I need my chicken Tome unlocks!

JC: We’re still trying to work that out…we had some other good ones like the chicken-with-your-head-cut-off one where you’d just run really fast and then you’d die. So…let’s see…1.4.4 we’re going to finish up some of that. We actually want to finish up the Grovod Caverns art and I can actually show you some of that today, we’ll do that a little later cuz we’re running out of time.

Mykiel: Did you say Grovod Caverns or Grovod Canyons?

Steven and JC: Caverns.

Mykiel: Oh, ok, I thought he said Canyons.

Steven: He mispronounces things. We don’t know if it’s on purpose or if it’s just…

GG: “Grover Canyons” it’s the new Muppet porno.


Steven: It’s the new 6v6. It’s the size of an RvR lake…


JC: I’m just gonna go through the rest of the stuff for 1.4.4 real quick. We’re examining some new Scenarios based on old areas ala College of Corruption. We’re basically seeing what we could potentially work in based on…I don’t know that we’ll have one to work in for 1.4.4 but we’re trying to get a bunch of different places for it. There are a lot of places if you look in our game, and I think we’ve noted on this, they would not only work good as Battlefield Objectives or whatever, but they’d work good as just places to fight that would be somewhere new which College of Corruption was a good example of. For example, the Library in the Land of the Dead.

GG: Or just the antechamber in the Tomb of the Vulture Lord.

JC: Exactly. There’s lots of little places like that that would work well in a concentrated fight versus just saying “let’s just take it all and make it a fight”. It’s still about a “get people together” thing where we want to focus the fight. And there’s a lot of other zones where we have thrown out the ideas of having one of their Dungeons being used, whether it’s tied to the campaign or a Battlefield Objective or a Scenario or just some kind of Event, the idea is that we can re-use some of these wonderful areas in a way that makes it fresh.

We’re doing some little things, we have some additional helpers doing some little things like…we started working on the warcamps, and Scenarios to some degree, to make sure all the guards are consistent because we still get that occasional thing that will pop up where someone says “Yeah, I can get into your spawn and camp you”. We took care of some of that with the “area kill” thing now but there’s still some random guards that are just inconsistent and wander too far and we’re trying to clean that up.

One of the things we want to do for the Open RvR campaign in 1.4.4 isn’t a huge thing but we’re working on a way to re-introduce a defensive-win so that there’s a way to encourage defense. Keaven’s not here this week, he’s off at the beach doing…

Steven: Probably hating life. He’s not a beach person.

JC: He’s not a beach person and they don’t have Internet or TV.

Sean: And they spell things wrong there.

JC: They don’t have anything apparently. But anyways…he’s gonna be working on that and one of his key points right now is having it evolve around the ram. I know there was some talk and discussion, we did the feedback discussion on the forums before about tieing that into the Battlefield Objectives as well in some fashion and where you are in the Keep campaign will affect how easy it is to attack and defend. You’ll have some reason to defend and get a benefit out of it other than the “oh well, it’s too late now, just run”.

One of the things we never did go back and finish PvE-wise was there’s a lot of quests revolving around Scenarios that became obsolete or semi-obsolete and we’re doing the rotating playlists to keep it fresh. So we’re going to try to revise some of those and make them better so they’ll work and you’ll always have some kind of additional quest out there you can do regardless what’s going on Scenario-wise.

Combat and Careers focus…Steven is…you can talk about that a little bit. He’s working on ranged classes at the moment.

Steven: Well, it’s very concentrated on the Shadow Warrior right now. It is trying to remove the reliance on Vengeance of Nagaryth and some of the conditionals on the abilites that have “If you are affected by”…I’m trying to roll some of those into the abilites, change around everything, make Vengeance something that you can actively press. It’s not a 2-minute cooldown. You can time it better. Not all of your abilities rely on it.

A couple things I’m doing for Magus and Engineer is removing the cast time on the Land Mine because I believe that’s causing most of your issues with the “Invalid Target”. So by removing that, I should be able to eliminate some of the issues you’re seeing with having an invalid target when trying to place it. Also looking at doing something with Flak Jacket, trying to figure out how to do it to allow it to stack with other buffs, at what point can we do that? Can we do it something that makes it permanent until you do instead of the 20 hits, which means other things that are involved like the armor that makes it 10 more, it means looking at that as well. Going down the rabbit hole, seeing how deep it is to fix that, that’s another thing. But right now, it’s mostly on Shadow Warrior that I have things for.

Mykiel: Can you be more specific on the Shadow Warrior? Are you giving me “Everything has 100% Armor Penetration”?


Steven: No, I’m not…I’ve actually…that’s one of the biggest points of contention on the forums right? I don’t think that’s something that’s manageable for the future…to just keep adding Armor Penetration because eventually just…what’s the point of armor if we keep adding different ways to penetrate, different ways to ignore…that’s just basically ignoring the problem in general. I don’t think that’s something that’s manageable for the future of the game.

Mykiel: Are you looking at stances?

Steven: I’m looking at them…some not…I believe, and Nate can correct me, a lot of that is (linked to) animation too. (Ed. Note: Which means it’s not a simple tweak, it’s major coding effort.) So some of which just cannot be helped at this time.

Mykiel: I don’t mind if my guy is just standing there like this… ~strikes a pose~

Steven: So not so much with the stances…trying to make Scout a little more attractive which means looking at the takedown/knockdown, moving that and keeping it in the Skirmish line but then making Scout more the ranged anti-healer and having the double-debuff in Scout so you can debuff both incoming and outgoing healing in the Scout path…that kind of stuff. Just rearranging things to make Scout a little more attractive and have a little more focus.

EK: Would you consider dropping some of the stance-restriction on some of the abilities?

Steven: That, again, depends on the animations with the cast time…it just depends on the what kind of cast time and animation it’s using. It’s on a point-by-point basis on whether or not we can change it.

JC: One last thing that we’re going to be focusing on in 1.4.4, most of this will be design at this point but it should be an interesting topic and there will be a Dev Discussion and I’m sure you guys will want to weigh in on it…we’re actually going back to what we can do in the Fortresses which is actually a combination of things. It’s not that we want to tie them into the campaign like they were before, we want to make them work a little differently to where they’re actually an alternate way to fight very similar to, if you want to think about it as the relic raids in Camelot, they weren’t necessarily tied to the…I mean there was a campaign element to it but it wasn’t tied just to that. We’re looking at if there’s a way we can tie back in possession of those to guilds as well.

Werit: That sounds pretty cool.

JC: We’ve made a lot of improvements with the lag and technology we’ve had over the years in the way of bigger battles and the general Open RvR work we’ve done. We’ve kind of pushed people around…and another thing is there isn’t as much population unfortunately at some times…and we’re not going to make the mistake we made before and we’re not going to make it a focal point, at any given time, where everybody has to go there which was the problem before. That problem had us trying to solve it in weird ways and eventually we just took it out of the campaign. The idea is that it will be something that either happens at the same time (as the campaign) or at certain times but will not force people to go there for their campaign push.

Steven: And ultimately the goal is not to have something that is completely on rails, like you have the issue right now with the Cities where you get tired of it because it’s always happening. If the Fortresses are always happening…

JC: We’re gonna wrap up for the moment but we’ll return and get you other cool stuff on WAR.


For the record, we did return to this conversation a while later and spent a good majority of it talking about Fortresses and how they might get re-introduced to WAR.  Unfortunately, this conversation wasn’t in the audio file I have.  😦  I’m not sure if it got recorded or not, to be honest.  However, if you can imagine a discussion about Fortresses, Camelot’s Relic Raids, Realm buffs, item transport across three zones, etc…then you know what we talked about.  They made it very clear that there would be a Dev Discussion on this topic on the forums in the future, so get your ideas ready in the meantime so you can join the discussion when it happens.

I’ll leave it at this for now.  If I can get hold of the rest of the audio, I’ll do another transcription but I’m not sure there is any more.  We’ll see.

Make sure to check out the other bloggers posts for their views on the day.  I may even post my own personal views on the day as well…dunno.  Not my usual MO, so we’ll have to see.  😉

Until then…

Have fun!


45 Comments leave one →
  1. Zoozie permalink
    July 12, 2011 7:53 am

    Nice read! But I do not get the impressision much new will happen and definately not
    very fast. I agree with the bloggers. The game needs a common goal for the realm/guilds.
    Forts alone is a not a solution.

    • July 12, 2011 4:04 pm

      There hasn’t been a common goal for a long time and it would definitely help in my opinion. There is no single solution, of course. One step at a time.

  2. July 12, 2011 8:54 am

    And of course QA. How could I forget them in the summary?

  3. July 12, 2011 3:02 pm

    One of the places I want to fight in the most is inside the port of Barak Varr. They have what looks like a whole city in there. I am not saying we need to use the whole thing, not that I would mind that, but I want to see some use given to the place. It is sizable enough to use for open RvR and enough possibilities to be sectioned off for scenarios.

    • July 12, 2011 4:03 pm

      I agree. They did a great job in there and it’s something not a lot of people see.

  4. melponeme_k permalink
    July 12, 2011 4:09 pm

    Less renown?

    This game is in the process of losing one of two American servers. This game needs to give more renown. The leechers are the last thing that anyone needs to worry about. Word to the developers the leechers are paying subscription. They are paying customers.

    I played the PvE in this game. And I had a good amount of company while doing so. The quests were wonderful. All that needed to be done for them was clean up terrain bugs, a little change in the gathering requirements and toning down super NPCs. In fact, I think the PvE should give a small bit of renown.

    I’m very, very sad that all that hard work will be thrown to the garbage. That all the cliff hangers in the last PvE zones will never have a sequel. Its a shame.

    Most of you are telling the developers to make it harder for new players to get gear and renown. Now connect that with the state of the game. There is a connection.

    • July 12, 2011 4:19 pm

      I disagree. The leechers are exactly what you need to worry about and they always have been. This game only works well when people fight together. Having people sit off to the side and do nothing while getting rewarded for others’ hard work has been killing this game for years, little by little.

      It is now easier than ever before to get gear and Renown. So easy, in fact, that someone can get to RR80+ in a few months without really trying very hard at all. Just an FYI: It took some of us a couple years to do that under the old system. I’m not saying we should return to having things be that difficult, but if you don’t truly EARN something, you don’t respect it either and that’s a big issue when it comes to a game that pits Realms vs. Realms and not just Players vs. Players.

    • melponeme_k permalink
      July 12, 2011 4:30 pm

      Again, Leechers are paying subscriptions the very lifeblood of this game. They are the last problem that should be addressed. What should be addressed in RvR are terrain bug exploits and add-ons that give unfair advantage.

      The fact that there are leechers indicate that RR is too cumbersome to collect. The crux of the problem no one is asking is why leechers feel they must leech.

      I’m sorry but the focus of the bloggers at this meeting is so remote from the average new player it is frightening. All of this advice turns the game into something akin to an FPS. People want a world. They want atmosphere. They want story. All of the advice so far takes that away.

      Its too bad the game has done everything it can to push PvE players away. They are the bread and butter of any online game. The developers need to take random surveys of players in the game. Not just the ones leaving and the bloggers.

    • July 12, 2011 4:42 pm

      I’m sorry you feel that way, but in all honesty, leechers have been a bane on people who actively RvR for years. Maybe you weren’t around for all of the complaints, which filled both forums, PTS Vent conversations and region chat on just about every server (Mailbox Guardians, Warcamp Humpers, etc). The new version of the campaign helped to mitigate those complaints a small amount due to requiring you to be somewhat in the RvR lake to receive a bonus, but it by no means eliminated the problem. Them being “paying customers” is not a valid argument any more than it is trying to use it to defend hackers/cheaters as they have the same effect on the morale of the truly active player-base.

      As to your comment that our perspective is different from that of a new player…of course it is. We’ve all been playing this game for years. That doesn’t make our perspective any less valid than anyone else’s though, as you seem to imply. There are lots of people who played this game for years but have stopped because of the types of things we’ve mentioned. They would gladly come back for the RvR they enjoyed so much if there were less of the types of issues we discussed. And ultimately, new players will become players just like us…players who have done everything there is to do in the game in terms of both PvE and RvR content and want there to be more to do and I, for one, would rather have that content waiting for them when they get there than have them left in the wind like we have been.

    • melponeme_k permalink
      July 12, 2011 4:53 pm

      I’ve played the game for two and half years. I knew the problems. And I’ve always thought the leechers were the least of those.

      The main problem is player retention. The reason I left was not because of leechers. But the continual taking away of story and atmosphere in this game. Because the RR hurdles were set further and further away from average player. Because the game now solely focuses on private warbands and it has no campaign to rally around. The old systems taken away because they couldn’t handle the load on the last of their servers.

      Since the game has been taking the advice of the bloggers it is now losing one it’s last American servers.

      That is the proof in the pudding. Nothing can explain that away.

    • JalisIronhammer permalink
      July 12, 2011 5:20 pm

      You say:The fact that there are leechers indicate that RR is too cumbersome to collect.
      I say:The fact that there are leechers indicate that RR is too easy to collect.

      You say:Word to the developers the leechers are paying subscription. They are paying customers.
      I say:So were the bots and gold sellers of yore, and dare I say it they contributed as much to the game as your standard leecher.

      You say:I’m sorry but the focus of the bloggers at this meeting is so remote from the average new player it is frightening.
      I say:The focus of the bloggers is pretty remote in general, I mean they’re still playing the game! I still love Gaar and Mykiel from playin with ’em though! 😛

      Everybody has their reasons for playing or in my case not playing anymore, and a lot of them are pretty valid, I don’t expecct the game to make a triumphant return but they’re adding some unique stuff at least, even if it’s all scenario based 😛

    • JalisIronhammer permalink
      July 12, 2011 5:20 pm

      and this is a horrible reply format Gaar 😛

    • melponeme_k permalink
      July 12, 2011 5:31 pm

      I’m not against the bloggers. I’m saying their advice should be taken with a grain of salt and that since their input the game has stumbled further.

      Its reaching the end of the line here. And once one of the last American servers goes, I highly doubt they will keep any of the european servers open.

    • July 13, 2011 6:01 am

      The problem with targeting leaching is it is not cost effective.. It is one of the things that has and will always be in MMO’s. Besides the leaching only really hurts the people leaching since they aren’t spending their time enjoying the game.. If all the money and time was spent on making the game more enjoyable or just fixing bugs. There would be more people to fight with or without leaching. People don’t level and MMO because people stood in war camps to get flips. They left the game because of bugs or because they just didn’t enjoy playing anymore. It is like software, music and movie industries fight against piracy. If they focus all that money on how to lower the prices it would have increases sales and cut piracy.

      And honestly while I think it was great bloggers and all great guys. They really should be talking to are people who played for 2+ years like Jalis, me, or heck even Testpig who enjoyed playing the game and want to enjoy the game but find ourselves unable to justify giving it the time.

      Thanks again Gaar for the post and taking the time to go.

  5. July 12, 2011 4:56 pm

    great transcript! gave me an idea for tomorrow’s entry 😉

  6. July 12, 2011 5:45 pm

    Jalis – I hate the reply format as well, but I have yet to find a way to change it without either changing the entire theme or limiting the number of replies which then breaks old threads. :/

    As to the game “stumbling” due to blogger input…wow…I think I’ve heard this before except aimed at the Core Tester program. In both cases, we’re just a very small sample of the feedback they receive and listen to at any given time. Believe me, if my opinion had truly been driving the game, it would be quite a bit different than it is now. lol

  7. July 12, 2011 5:51 pm

    OK, I broke the comments. Everyone can blame Jalis. However, in the future, commenting should be a little better but you’ll have to @Name people since it’s only set to nest 2 deep now. :p

  8. Sigvardr of KA permalink
    July 12, 2011 6:39 pm

    what surprises me, you werent talking about gear/RR problem at all, i mean look at forums its full of it, ppl who doesnt play 24/7, just log in for a hour a day, DO NOT have any chance against ppl who got somehow time to get rr100, and then not give a change to those casual players.

    Lets be realistis here, what happens when rr80-89 ppl meet rr90-100 premade?
    total slaughter …
    You even mentioned this problem, but you dont even know it. You said that serpent is ending by camping either of spawns, and in 60% cases its GEAR gap making this issue.

    i was playing at begining of warhammer and we had actual fights in middle of serpent or not getting to anyones spawn any near or close. Why? cuz everyone was rr50 in anihilator if lucky.

    Now i know ppl who play 24/7 need kind of a reward, what comes on my mind would be appearence. they can look cooler, stats in PvP game shouldnt differ as much as our SOV and warpforge gear do.
    What i mean there should be of course better gear, after all its mmorpg game BUT, it shouldnt be as huge difference as its now. I know there has been some kind of nerf.
    But seeing those rr100 ppl 2hitting rr 80-90 is just sad.

    Why am i mentioning this at all? i think mythic is fighting with losing ppl.. thats problem in MANY if not all mmmos. But what is actual problem? they are NOT getting new customers..
    why? because again..its a PVP, so lets say few friends buy game lvl up to r40rr70, get to t4 and all they ll get is KICKED ASS by all those rr90+ ppl.
    Now how long does it take to lvl up from rr70to at least 90 for casuals? or even for player who play quite often?.. its easier to just quit and look for replacement, than getting asskicked for months just because they joined game too late…

    ATM its like this. you joined this game too late, get your ass kicked for months to be competitive OR GTFO.

    my 2 cents

    • July 12, 2011 10:29 pm

      In regards to Serpent’s camping being gear-related: Sorry, but that’s not always the case. I did not hit RR80 until after The Verminous Horde was released and yet I still camped people regularly in the spawn. It’s an issue with the design more than anything else as there truly is no way out once you’re camped. There are multiple Scenarios like that. And for the record, the fights in the middle still happen, but only when it’s either premade vs premade or pug vs pug. When it’s pug vs. premade, it’s camp-city.

      For perspective’s sake, I’m still RR80 and yet I can go into a Scenario or ORvR and do just fine in most fights as long as I have people fighting with me. Are there some people that can kill me in a couple hits? Sure. But that’s always been the case, especially when I run a squishy-build.

      People’s unwillingness to engage in fights alongside their fellow Realm-mates has always been WAR’s Achilles Heel and always will be. As long as people are willing to fight, and die, together then the game retains its enjoyment value for someone like me and that’s all I can be expected to speak for…as can anyone.

  9. July 13, 2011 1:10 am

    It’s odd the feedback questions mythic ask the bloggers, and the response they give tend to be even worst then the questions asked. It really feels like (based on the statements in the transcript) mythic doesn’t not play the game.

    i’m just amazed that only werit touched on the issues of open RvR being so lack luster.

    • July 13, 2011 1:54 am

      They asked for Best and Worst, not Everything On Our List. We had a very tight schedule. If they’d asked a question specifically about RvR, I don’t know that we’d have made our planes on time.

  10. Sigvardr of KA permalink
    July 13, 2011 4:30 am

    Im sorry Gaarawarr but if tank is being killed in 4 seconds only because is rr80 unlike his rr100 oponent, isnt squishy built related..
    im happy you feel fine, but according to subscriptions you are one of FEW.
    dropping down from 800k+ subscriptions down to about 30k doesnt seem all fine to me

  11. kosta permalink
    July 13, 2011 5:10 pm

    One thing is sure,warhammer came too soon ,if game had that mutch ppl as WOW it would be different they would have reason to change things,now they just sit in chair, and dont sweat their bolls at all

  12. Grumbnir permalink
    July 13, 2011 8:32 pm

    I havn’t really played t4 RvR for about 3 months now. My toon is rr 74 and it’s absolutely impossible for him to do anything usefull there except beeing steemrolled by rr 90-100 warbands. All I do for pasdt 3 months is hang around in t1 – 3 and I must say it’s great fun. Why? Because when I jump in t2 with my rank 14 char I can still have some fun and do something useful there. When you hop in t4 with your char it’s over, unless you got 23 mates rr 90-100.

    There’s an issue that hasn’t been adressed here: AM’s/Shammies. I really expected that they would be somehow changed to be lil’ bit less OP’ed, but apparently there’s actually no such plan even in the long term – too bad.

  13. July 13, 2011 9:33 pm

    “And honestly while I think it was great bloggers and all great guys. They really should be talking to are people who played for 2+ years like Jalis, me, or heck even Testpig who enjoyed playing the game and want to enjoy the game but find ourselves unable to justify giving it the time.”

    @Zhaunil – I’m not really sure where you were going with this. I know for a fact that all four of the people they invited in person have played for over 2 years, most since Launch. I can pretty safely say that while Mykiel and EK seem to play WAR quite a bit and Werit occasoinally, I don’t play it much at all anymore. I log in to see what the Weekend Warfront is and, if it’s not new in some way, I log out.

    With the introduction of the new Live Event, I’ve played more often. But even then, the issues with Open RvR have kept me from completing it as, even now, people don’t really want to fight at all. They still take the path of least resistance and avoid fights while complaining that there aren’t enough fights. And despite your comment, I do end up logging out because of leechers sitting in the warcamps. It bothers me to no end that people can advance in Renown Rank without putting in any effort whatsoever. Is it slow? Sure. But they level faster AFK in warcamps than casual players do that log in and ACTIVELY participate. If you can’t see how that would bother people and make them stop playing, then I really have nothing else to say.

    I would LOVE to have WAR become, once again, the place where I spend the majority of my gaming time as I’m sure Jalis and Testpig would. However, after having played since Launch, there’s just nothing new to do and killing people in the face gets old when it has zero purpose other than to help you stroke your e-peen.

    @Sigvardr – So if you want to talk sub numbers over a 3-year period do I get to bring up WoW’s losing MILLIONS of subs in a few months? I’m just curious how we’re attempting to frame this argument. Frankly, no one but EA/BioWare/Mythic knows current sub numbers accurately and whether or not they’re rising or declining, so any attempt to venture into those waters is a waste of time in my opinion. And my opinion is the only thing I can state here.

    • July 13, 2011 10:18 pm

      Oh I can see why it would bother some people but I think War has a lot bigger issues. Personally I think they really messed up oRvR to the point it is more annoying than anything else. The fact progression in renown and gear is so easy now. Then you add the slow time table on fixing bugs and lack of new content. I just think leaching is so low on the list. Plus if you took care of the other issues I feel leaching wouldn’t be notice as much.

      The point about bloggers you countered perfectly. The point mainly was Mythic needs to talk to people have left recently or people that keep going back and forth. It’s the people who want to like the game but just struggle with the ability to keep playing it. I pulled Jalis and testpig because I knew both from IR, and they had already posted comments. So I am sorry I was wrong from what you said you were one of the perfect choices.

      Again this is just my opinion and thank you for writing the blog

    • July 14, 2011 1:38 am

      We’ll agree to disagree on leeching. I always welcome opposite points of view as long as they’re based in reality. 😉

  14. Larri permalink
    July 14, 2011 12:21 am

    Thx for the effort, as a SW its a very great news for the new adjustment of our class, but hopefully they do it right this time 😛

    • July 14, 2011 1:38 am

      “Right” will always be subjective, but hopefully the majority end up liking the changes they decide upon.

  15. Sigvardr of KA permalink
    July 14, 2011 3:47 am

    I see Gaarawarr, you are one of defenders of mythic no matter what. So howmany servers had war at release? i dont remember but there was like 20-30 of them. Now? after series of merges because of ghost servers we have what, 4?
    so your telling me we cant tell, if we actually have more or less players? i have to laugh at you sorry..
    i seen graph with MMORPG games war included. EVE being most stable one, while war had biggeest drop. dunno where they got numbers from but there was over 800k in begining and atm there was about 30k subs.
    And according to merges and active servers i think that number is actually bigger than ppl actually playing.

    • July 14, 2011 4:10 am

      I definitely don’t defend BioWare-Mythic “no matter what” as you assume. If you’d bother to read any comment other than your own, you’d see I said I don’t even really play much anymore for a variety of reasons that have to do with the decisions they’ve made or failed to make in the past.

      However, as some people say, there’s no use crying over spilt milk. WAR will never get all those players back, but it can work to keep the players it has and try to gain new ones. Maybe even get a few that left to come back. If that were to happen, it would be on its way to being more successful than it is currently and that is progress.

      That’s what you seem to not see here. To you, regardless of how much better the game gets, it will always be a failure because you’ll be looking at numbers that are no longer relevant to the actual picture. However, to the people that still play and will continue to play in the future, progress is a big deal.

  16. Sigvardr of KA permalink
    July 14, 2011 6:30 am

    you got it all wrong, for me the game is fun and somewhat OK. I say somewhat because i know theres plenty of problems. And i see the big picture of actual no new content and ppl leaving x times faster than coming back or getting new players. Its actually so rare to find ppl who are new in this game. When im doing RvR/scens (im daily player) i see same faces all the time, same premades, same guilds that didnt abandon this game yet.

    Im looking forward and still hoping that mythic will show us they still care about this game, becuase so far they are just recycling old stuff, such as textures ( doomflayer warpforged gear hello…) such as college…
    and yet they ar telling us they ll recycle even more, such as tovl or lotd places into pvp.. ofc its a cool and good there will be new place to fight at. But still its just recycling.

    They need to look at WoW or EVE, why are those games succesful?.
    Its easy and plain simple. Their (eve and wow) datadisks are actually adding content, new skills, new places (no recycling included)even new characters.
    Whats doing war are SMALL (capslock isnt enough to make how small) changes or tyoing with balance is war doing.
    We all know the truth, that war develpoers are working on SW. We all know thats why is mythic doing just small changes or recycling old stuff.

    Im sorry but most characters in warpforged look worse than lvl 15 char, ye because they recycled unused texturex, i mean cmon look at rr90 WH and try to not laugh, hard isnt it?

    I know im all negative BUT i havre reasons BUT i still play this gaming and im hoping for best and new players to come.

    • July 14, 2011 7:54 am

      I hear what you’re saying, but this statement isn’t true based on what I’ve seen:

      “We all know the truth, that war developers are working on SW. We all know thats why is mythic doing just small changes or recycling old stuff.”

      WAR has its own team that is separate from what BioWare-Austin has working on SW:TOR. Just because they share ideas and some of the previous BioWare-Mythic people got hired by the SW:TOR team is not the same as what you’re making it out to be.

      As for why they’re making small changes…that’s been the norm for over 2 years now ever since the community had hugely negative reactions to the sweeping changes they introduced patch after patch. However, trying to compare WAR’s ability to produce content with WoW’s is really stretching things. Even though WoW apparently lost in the neighborhood of 4 million subs, they’re still running over 10 million subs based on their figures worldwide. That’s not just a different ballpark, that’s a different sport when it comes to production cycles and what can be put into them as far as I’m concerned. I can’t speak to EVE’s subs as I don’t follow that game at all. However, they’re not necessarily making their fan base happy lately, if you haven’t noticed.

      As for using art assets currently in the game to produce new content with, that’s an efficiency issue as far as I’m concerned. And I’d much rather they be efficient and make lots of new content for us than create stuff from scratch that ends up slowing down production cycles and netting us less content in the same amount of time.

      Honestly, we can go back and forth on this all day though as a lot of what we’re discussing is extremely subjective. However, the objective facts remain the same:

      Both BioWare-Mythic and Games Workshop are committed to Warhammer Online and are doing everything in their power to make the most of the resources they have to gives the player-base the best possible experience they can offer. We’ll all probably disagree on whether or not they achieve that goal in the end, but that doesn’t make the statement any less true.

  17. Squibblegut Loveorder permalink
    July 14, 2011 6:36 am

    This was an interesting read for me. I used to maintain a blog and 1.4 literally broke me. I shut up shop and left in a huff – disgusted and bemused. I brought up a tonne of issues that I foresaw in the forums. I shouted “HOLY CRAP THE GEAR GAP WILL BE HUGE AND RR100S WILL SMASH EVERYONE” I found a picture of a baby seal getting clubbed by a person and labelled them by their renown rank – obviously the man with the club was RR100. I also stated that the new ORvR would really be proper “Realm vs Door” – and it is. Nobody rocks up to fights anymore until Rank 4. 1.4 Was one HELL of a slippery slope.

    I left, played Rift, played other games again and chilled out. I came back for the 14 day trial and the game was more boring then I remembered. My guild left and everyone is a tight knit group – everything is a closed warband. This isn’t WAR; this isn’t even fun. Coming back to this game is like returning to your home after it’s destroyed by an actual WAR. There’s nothing left for me to love.

    Something needs changing and fast. This QA shows me that nothing that actually needs addressing is even in discussion. Who cares about whether Gates of Ekrund will be 6v6 or 12v12 if the core activity of the game, the campaign, is just un-friggin-enjoyable? It’s such an amazingly boring experience it hurts. Like people have said to them, 3 years of the same fkn campaign is insanity – they NEED to pull their eff’ing finger out.

    I -REALLY- wanna sub to this game and run around as my Choppa (I used to play SH, but had a lowbie Chop and I just got the urge to spam lotsa choppin a while ago) hacking things up and shouting stupid stuff over vent, but I know it’s just going to get boring real fast.

    Here’s is a new way to create content out of the current T4 zones. When a zone unlocks have the RvR lake be randomly chosen from 3 presets they have made in the current zone, the current and 2 more new ones, that way everytime you go to a zone there will be an alternating area to take from that zone. You could even keep all the PvE that is currently there and trigger them off for when that area is activated as the RvR zone.

    If I heard Mythic were gonna do anything this ballsy with their game – which I don’t think they will because they seem to be a bit spineless when it comes to making big changes (their last one was a disaster, Carrie tricked you all!) and I just wanna cut/shoot/smash/destroy/kill my foes somewhere new. Definitely bring back a reason for guilds to work together apart from group up as well. Guild owned BO’s would be just as good as a Keep as well; increased RR gains for any guild or alliance member when enemies are killed near that BO. That’ll make people stick around BOs. Then the longer the BO is held the more renown gained when an enemy takes it.

    Come on Mythic, I’m thinking of this crap on the fly. Surely you guys can do better.

    Anyways, thx for the blog Gaara. Big shame they didn’t continue the conversation later.

    • July 14, 2011 7:59 am

      Thanks for stopping by man and I hear what you’re saying. For the record, they did continue the conversation later…but we either didn’t record it due to a dead battery or it got lost somewhere. The majority of it was about re-introducing Forts, as I stated, and that discussion will make it to the forums in a Dev Discussion just like the Alternate Scenario Locations one did.

  18. JalisIronhammer permalink
    July 14, 2011 2:33 pm

    Can’t bash the devs too hard…they’re just doing what they can with what they’ve got, sure we all have our dreams of what the game could become and they might too but it just is not going to happen.
    It’s like trying to reform a great rock band to its former glory, probably not likely!

    Also you can’t really bash the bloggers too hard either, it’s as if that band in the analogy I just used were to invite you backstage, are you gonna bitch at ’em in their house? MANNERS people! 😛

  19. Konstantinos Demakas permalink
    July 15, 2011 12:44 pm


    Nice to see Mythic inviting you over for a chat.
    The truth is that the past few months there is at least
    a sign of interest and some movement from Mythic regarding
    the game so we shouldn’t complain about what we get.
    From what I understand they are given limited recources
    and they try to do their best.
    Now to comment on all of the above.
    Wether an sc will be 6v6 or 12v12 is not as important as introducing new scs
    cause I’m dead tired of doing the same scs over and over again.
    The line up changes help a bit but a few days after every change
    it get’s boring to do scs.
    But what is more worrying is that you end up doing scs because the campaign
    is even more boring.Often I find myself running carriers alone in an
    empty zone in prime time.And after a keep hits r4 tadaaaaa everyone
    shows up we get the keep after withstanding the ultimate boredom
    of watching four guys bashing on the door with a ram.
    I have a few suggestions on what could revive the campaign but
    I won’t go over them now.
    As for forts.It is about F!@#$ time.Although I’m a bit worried on the way
    they are going to bring them back.I don’t see how a fort can be a bigger focal
    point than a keep.The way the campaign is now we all end up gathering and fighting around
    a keep.So if the servers can withstand a certain amount of players fighting in and
    around a keep why won’t they withstand the same amount of ppl fighting
    in and around a larger fort area?
    Now as far as leechers.If a guy wants to pay money so that he can
    stand in a wc or in a remote area and leech zone ticks that has nothing to do with
    me.Youn can’t make ppl fight if they don’t want to.That for RvR.
    As far as scs go you can’t force a low rr that jumped in a sc against end game rr90+
    players in t4 to keep getting raped and concider it fun.That guy will leech.
    And you have to take in account normal players that just want to chill out for a moment.
    In the end all the measures they’ve taken against leeching affected normal players more than leechers.You try to ambush and you have to keep spamming key strockes
    in order not to get in the afk state.Not to mention the times that mother nature
    calls and you have to go just about when there is a zone tick.ohh lord.
    Opening existing areas for RvR fighting is nice but not as good as introducing all
    new areas for us to fight in.
    As for expanding RvR lakes into PvE ones.All I can say is that I always did
    and will keep on doing PvE exploring and quests.I’m rr92 now and everytime
    there is that sad little 24v24 sc that ppl call a city siege(totally un epic) something
    that happens a lot more than once in a day I go back to PvE and chill out
    for a couple of hours.And it is that change from RvR to PvE and back again that
    keeps me in the game.
    A lot was said about the reasons ppl left the game.Most important issues
    on my behalf is no1 bugs(including lag and server performance issues) and no2 obvious class imbalances that go deep in the way some classes and cariers are designed in the 1st place.

    • Spleenrippa permalink
      July 22, 2011 7:53 pm

      I miss fighting against both of you Gaar and Jalis….

      I left the game around the beginning of the year. I played since day one on Iron Rock, and then after the last merge to Gorfang I just couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t see spending any more time doing the exact same thing I had been doing since getting to lvl 40. I had so much hope for this game, hoping that it would be like the opening cinematic, hoping that new factions, awesome armor bits, and all the other Warhammer fluff stuff would eventually be thrown into the mix, I wanted Spleen riding a wyvern like the champ in T1 orc, never happened, and I finally accepted that it never will. How do you screw up a Warhammer fantasy game? It is perhaps the most varied and rich universe you could ever base a mmo on. I wanted one day to be able to march my nurgle champion into a warband and give them all the plague……

      I am going to Gamesday here in Chicago, I was hoping for some sort of faint glimmer of something new and awesome to bring me back…but that too has been dashed.


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